Natalee Holloway, Missing in Aruba -1
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65) Molly   
Location:
Texas
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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:01 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Well it looks like Joran is finally getting some decent time in the slammer. Maybe not for what he must have done to Natalie but what he did to poor Stefany. I have followed this case for a long time and it does my mind good to see at least some form of justice just sad that another girl had to die.

sandi Wednesday, August 18, 2010 03:06 PM
Oh god you think joran killed stephany?
I do not believe it! i think he was set up!
i think the beth holloway is behind this whole peru thing!
it`s to obvious i can tell it`s a frame up!

Lady Justice Wednesday, August 18, 2010 09:32 PM
Sandi Sandi Sandi You have got to be totally out of your mind to think this is a frame up!!!
Just who would do that? Oh sure I bet Beth did and the FBI helped right. And did they also kill that poor innocent girl Stephany just so they could finally get Joran behind bars. And what about the video camera that has only him going in and out of the room,is that all part of this big frame up??? Yeah right. Any body but Joran, right! In your dreams.
64) Flora   
Location:
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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:58 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Thank you for writing the book and posting it online to allow someone like me to stumble across it.

I was unaware of the cottage industry that has grown around some of these high profile cases such as Natalee, Caylee Anthony, JonBenet Ramsey, Haleigh Cummings, etc. until the past year or so. I am very disturbed with what I see.

The cascade of events occurring around the five year anniversary of Natalee's disappearance seems more than coincidental to me.

- Beth opening Mayday360 and the NHRC in Washington, DC

- The extortion sting apparently set up by Beth's attorney, John Q. Kelly.

- Tim Miller & Equusearch's return to Aruba

- The murder of Stefany Flores

- & more things that I am probably unaware of.


My suspicions about all of these heroic samaritans and martyrs are not a welcome point of view on the justice forums as you can well imagine.

Thank you again for your work.
63) justice   
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Tuesday, June 15, 2010 02:18 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

(63) JORAN VAN DER SLOOT

Lamb a la Llama in Peru?

JOSSY MANSUR – Natalee Holloway

In 1999 Jossy Mansur and his brother Luis Mansur sued the Netherlands government before the United Nations Human Rights Committee [www1.umn.edu] for disseminating what the Aruban government termed a top secret report that claimed that the Mansurs were involved in organized crime. The report by the Dutch Internal Security Service draws a picture of security in Aruba and mentions that foreign services fighting crime in the region are almost unanimous in their opinion that the predominant image of the Aruban business community is one of joint services towards (laundering specialists of) regional drug cartels.

The report mentions the Mansurs by name and portrays them as criminals who were associated with criminal organizations involved in drugs trafficking, gun trafficking and laundering money obtained from criminal activities. Despite the fact that the report was classified as top secret it was leaked to the press and its contents became public. The suit was dismissed on procedural grounds for failure to exhaust Mansur's civil remedies in the Netherlands courts.
Paulus Van Der Sloot, father of Joran Van Der Sloot, was a prominent Aruban lawyer (studying to become a judge) involved in the “top secret report”. His level of participation or position in the report is not known.

US President Bill Clinton in 1996 publicly identified Aruba "as a major drug-transit country" and noted that "a substantial portion of the free-zone's businesses in Aruba are owned and operated by members of the Mansur family, who have been indicted in the United States on charges of conspiracy to launder trafficking proceeds."In the late 1980s, an investigator for Senator John Kerry's committee investigating the Iran-Contra Affair, interviewing drug traffickers in a West Miami prison kept hearing about the Mansurs. "Who are the Mansurs?" he would ask. Answer: "The big family in Aruba we used for laundering money and moving cocaine."

Mansur has strongly advocated a point of view in the cases of Eduardo Mathew and Natalee Holloway. He appeared regularly on Fox News and Nancy Grace's CNN Headline News show commenting on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba in 2005. Mansur formed his own "investigative team" and his newspaper repeatedly published new leads. According to some observers, Mansur latched onto the bandwagon as part of his own feud with the Aruban government.
The Mansur Family own the Aruban publication called DIARIO [www.diario.aw]

RICARDO FLORES

He is now referred to as Ricardo Flores Ramirez. Someone decided after a week of media circus and many quotes by Ricardo Flores that his surname is now Ramirez? Ditto for Stephany Flores, she also now a Ramirez.
Ricardo Flores, father of alleged murder victim Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez is a Peruvian businessman, circus promoter – I guess this axe wielding clown in the picture is an employee, politician, one time presidential candidate and friend of the owner of the Atlantic City Casino where Joran and Stephany apparently met. Evidently he is one powerful Peruvian with multi level government, intercontinental and international contacts.
Circus promoter indeed, as we have witnessed the masses in Peru descend on Joran Van Der Sloot in each of his appearances complete with rotten vegetable throwers and 7 Indian Shamans stabbing JVDS in effigy.
Do Jossy Mansur and Ricardo Flores Ramirez know of each other or conduct business together? Knowing each other is highly probable and conducting business is possible given the South American region where politics drugs corruption casinos and prostitution go hand in hand.

BETH TWITTY

The Natalee Holloway Resource Center

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
[www.crimemuseum.org]

Sheriff Mike Hale
Sheriff Mike Hale began his career in law enforcement 35 years ago at the Homewood Police Department in Birmingham, Alabama. In 1976, Hale was transferred to the Alabama Sheriff’s Office and has since served in every division of the Sheriff’s Office.

Beth Holloway

Beth Holloway is the mother of Natalee Holloway, a high school senior who went missing in Aruba in 2005 during a class trip. Natalee’s case remains unsolved and Beth has dedicated her life to helping others in similar circumstances. Since Natalee’s disappearance, she has created a traveling safe program which she presents to a variety of audiences nationwide.

Johnny L. Hughes

As a U.S Marshal, a position achievable only through Presidential appointment with the advice and consent of the U.S. Senate, Johnny L. Hughes effectively directs the activities for the districts in the state of Maryland. Among his many duties as a U.S. Marshal, Hughes is responsible for leading fugitive task forces, operating the Witness Security Program, and seizing property acquired by criminals through illegal activities. Prior to his appointment in 2002, Hughes was Director of High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area Information Office. He also worked for the Maryland State Police from 1967 to 1996. He was awarded the United States Attorney General’s Special Commendation Award in 1993 and National Law Enforcement Council Achievement Award in 1992.

Jennifer Karr

Jennifer Karr is married to Dr. Aaron Karr and son, Aaron James. Jennifer graduated from the University of Alabama with a marketing degree in 1999. She received her law degree from Capital University Law School in Columbus Ohio with a specialization in mediation in May of 2009. While in law school, Jennifer served as President of the Student Bar Association and President of the Christian Legal Society. She also contributed to the school newspaper. Jennifer currently resides in West Virginia with her family and plans to use her law degree in the health care or mediation arena in the future.

Amanda Ober

Amanda Ober has been a television news reporter for over 20 years and currently works at WESH TV, the NBC affiliate in Orlando, Florida. She has won several associated press awards and among her career highlights are covering two New Hampshire presidential primaries, the Florida election chaos in 2000, and many hurricanes. Amanda is active in her community and serves on the boards of several faith-based non-profits. She also regularly facilitates bible studies and small groups at her church. She is a native of New England and was born in Salem, Massachusetts and grew up mostly in Bedford, New Hampshire. Amanda has a B.S. degree in broadcast journalism from Troy University in Troy, Alabama.

Chris Walker

Chris Walker graduated Summa Cum Laude from the University of Central Florida with a degree in political Science in 1994. Chris then attended The University of Florida College of law, where he received his Juris Doctor degree in 1997. Upon graduation from law school, Chris took a position with the State Attorney's Office for the Seventh Judicial Circuit for the State of Florida. During Chris' tenure at the State Attorney's Office, he was responsible for the prosecution of thousands of cases ranging from misdemeanors to the most serious of felonies. As a division chief, his duties also consisted of training and supervising several attorneys. In 2008, Chris opened the law Offices of Christopher G. Walker, P.L., where his main practice area is Criminal Defense. Chris reside in Ormond Beach, Florida with his wife Ms. Woody Walker and their son Chase.
The Natalee Holloway Resource Center (NHRC) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation, organized to fund and support projects to enhance the mission of the NHRC. FEIN: 27-0586899
• 575 7th Street, NW • Washington DC 20004 • [www.helpthemissing.org] •
[www.crimemuseum.org]

SPECIAL THANKS [url]http://www.crimemuseum.org/documents/Special Thanks.pdf[/url]

Special thanks goes to our volunteers who have helped MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
In addition to the Board of Directors the follow companies and/or individuals have offered their time and services to the Natalee Holloway Resource Center.

Forming the Foundation:

About the National Museum of Crime & Punishment (NMCP)
NMCP’s mission is to provide guests of all ages with a memorable insight into the issues of crime, crime fighting, and the consequences of committing a crime in America through a captivating interactive, entertaining and educational experience. The museum is located on 7th Street NW between E and F Streets in downtown Washington, D.C. at the Gallery Place/Chinatown Metro (Arena exit). For more information, visit [www.crimemuseum.org]

Media/Public Relations:

Brotman•Winter•Fried Communications is a Washington, D.C. agency headquartered in suburban Falls Church, VA, specializing in public and media relations, marketing, advertising and special event management and promotion. Tracing its roots back to 1969, Brotman•Winter•Fried has built its legacy by producing memorable and highly-effective campaigns encompassing public service, community service, grass roots community outreach, special event management, artwork production, and advertising and marketing campaigns for a broad collection of clients. For more information, please visit [www.bwfcom.com.]

J. Thomas Viall- Non-Profit Consultant

As Senior Consultant for Capacity Building, Tom has worked with organizations to build capacity for success at all levels of organizational operations, with specialized focus on fund development, volunteer leadership, membership growth, governance, and Board development.
[www.crimemuseum.org]

There’s a robust lot. Throw in a couple of private dicks and a C.I.A. here and an FBI there and presto.
The agenda has been an unrelenting and unremitting campaign of harassment and character assassination of Joran with the ultimate goal of a frame-up further down the road once the media succeeded in portraying its version of what JVDS should be, that is, guilty, a serial killer and a psychopath.

The Natalee Foundation’s donations and accounts are not available for public perusal.

“Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”.

Beth Twitty’s motive? Revenge/vendetta for the disappearance of her daughter Natalee and her delusional belief, without a body or evidence, that JVDS is guilty.

Jossy Mansur’s motive? Money, revenge/vendetta for the leaked “top secret report” and it’s damning contents.

Ricardo Flores motive? Money. The local clown with all the heavy hitting contacts in a country endemically corrupt and a violator of human rights.

Joran Van Der Sloot needs immediate experienced top caliber assistance.

justice Tuesday, June 15, 2010 05:48 PM
Also to the above a rather chilling foretelling (0f Twitty's character, rage and intentions) statement made by Beth Twitty Twat on FOX News on WED November 19, 2008:

FOX NEWS WEDNESDAY November 19, 2008

HOLLOWAY: “Yes. And Greta, I was just wanting to say that, you know, like I said, it's been a long time, but it's never too late for justice. And I'd be good with a "Midnight Express" prison anywhere for Joran.”

[www.foxnews.com]

Unbelievable statement! Twitty paid for and got what she wanted.
62) Jan   
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Thursday, June 3, 2010 08:55 AM Write a response to this post Permalink


Natalee Holloway Suspect Joran Van Der Sloot Sought in Peru Murder

Dutch National Last to Be Seen with Murdered Woman, on the Lam in South America

By RUSSELL GOLDMAN and CHRISTINE BROUWER
June 2, 2010

Joran van der Sloot, the 22-year-old Dutch playboy twice arrested in the mysterious disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, has been named the prime suspect in the death of a young Peruvian woman found dead over the weekend in a Lima hotel.
Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez, 21, was found at the Miraflores Hotel Tac in Lima, Peru on Sunday in room registered to van der Sloot, who was arrested and released in connection with the disappearance of Holloway , an 18-year-old American student who went missing in Aruba five years ago this week.

Officials believe Flores was killed exactly five years after Holloway's May 30, 2005, disappearance.



Flores was found beaten and stabbed to death in a room booked in van der Sloot's name, police said. A hotel employee told police that Flores entered the hotel early Sunday morning with van der Sloot.

"We have an interview with a worker at the hotel who says she saw this foreigner with the victim enter his room," Peruvian police chief Gen. Cesar Guardia told reporters today.

The woman's father told reporters that the she was killed about 8 a.m. Sunday morning and the room was covered in blood, indicating a struggle had taken place.

Authorities believe van der Sloot fled Peru, passing through customs into Chile, and is on his way to Argentina. Peruvian officials have issued an international arrest warrant for the Dutchman.

Van der Sloot reportedly entered Peru on May 14 and left either May 30 or May 31. He initially entered the country to play in a poker tournament, Guardia said.

Flores left a friend's home Wednesday morning and was last seen that evening leaving a casino with Van der Sloot, according local media quoting to the woman's father, Ricardo Flores, a Peruvian businessman and racecar driver. Surveillance cameras caught the pair leaving the casino together.

A funeral for Flores will be held Thursday, her father told ABC News.

Holloway similarly disappeared after being last seen with Van der Sloot outside an Aruban night club on May 30, 2005. Van der Sloot was initially arrested in Holloway's disappearance in June of that year. He was released and arrested again in 2007, when he was detained for questioning but never charged.

In 2008, Dutch journalist Peter de Vries claimed he solved the case when Van der Sloot confessed to an undercover reporter to being with Holloway when she died and dumping her body in the Caribbean Sea.

In February 2010, a Dutch tabloid published a supposed confession by Van Der Sloot in which he said Holloway got drunk and fell from a balcony.

[abcnews.go.com]
61) CD   
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Friday, March 19, 2010 07:17 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Photo Reignites Search for Natalee Holloway's Body

This is quite a story!




[www.aolnews.com]

Dutch Lady Thursday, March 25, 2010 06:40 PM
Nothing but rocks and coral found. Seems another wild goose chase which is no surprise to me.

Aruba cops: No bones of missing teen found in sea

The Associated Press
Posted: 03/25/2010 08:50:18 AM PDT

ORANJESTAD, Aruba—Police found nothing but rocks and coral while searching underwater for the remains of missing U.S. teen Natalee Holloway, the Aruba prosecutors' office said Thursday.

Police dove several times on Wednesday and Sunday after an American couple turned over an underwater photo of what they believed might have been her remains, said spokeswoman Ann Angela. The couple were diving while on vacation in Aruba last year.

Divers didn't find any items in the photo, Angela said.

"We looked at it seriously," she said. "It did not prove successful."

The 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Alabama, disappeared while on vacation in Aruba in 2005 and was last seen leaving a bar with Joran van der Sloot on the final night of a high school graduation trip.

Van der Sloot has been detained several times, but Aruban prosecutors say they lack evidence to charge him.

Police believe the couple from Manheim, Pennsylvania, likely zoomed in on some coral, giving the impression that it might have been a skull and bones, Angela said.

The search was one of many launched to find Holloway.

[www.mercurynews.com]
60) Kara   
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Friday, March 5, 2010 07:37 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

Wow I see ole Joran confessed again. How many times has he confessed now? How many times will it take before they finally arrest him?


Natalee Holloway Snorted Coke, Fell to Death, Suspect Says
Joran van der Sloots alleged new confession asserts graphic details of the night she died
By CLEOPATRA ANDREADIS and CHRISTINE BROUWER

Feb. 26, 2010—

New details in the alleged confession from Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, give an emotional and descriptive account of what he says were Holloways last moments that night she died.

The Telegraaf reported that they viewed the videotaped conversation, which lasted two and a half hours, yesterday of van der Sloots most recent interview with RTL 5, a Dutch television station. This latest alleged confession was shot at a hotel in Dusseldorf, Germany. A full interview is expected to air this Sunday on the network.

According to the Dutch tabloid, van der Sloot reveals the surname of his 20-year-old accomplice, A., and describes in detail how they allegedly brought Holloway to a friend's house where he says they drank whiskey and used cocaine.

"A. had just put on the music. And eh, they both had just taken some coke." Van der Sloot claims Holloway and A. snorted the drugs before Holloway decided to climb up onto the rim of the balcony to dance. "I think she was pretty drunk," van der Sloot added, "so she was just kind of dancing half a striptease, just like she was doing on stage at Carlos & Charlies."

The Dutch tabloid noted van der Sloot becoming more emotional as he described in detail what he says happened next.

"Then I walked over to her to dance with her a little.... And eh, I grabbed her by the hips. When I let go, she fell from the balcony..."

"We looked down and saw her lying there. Yes, there was blood. I think she fell on the ground with her head first." Van der Sloot continued to say that they both ran the steps to Natalee. "Her chin was to one side and I turned it the other way. There was blood on the ground too. There was no life."

The Justice Department in Aruba is quick to dismiss the details of this latest alleged confession, telling ABC News that "We have been aware of the existence of this interview since August of last year. We investigated the claims made. The Aruban police investigated, with help from specialists with the Dutch police.

Spokeswoman for the Aruban Justice Department, Ann Angela continued to say that their "conclusion was that the statements made by Joran van der Sloot are entirely unbelievable."

Chief Prosecutor in Aruba, Peter Blanken told ABC News, "It's a story that in and of itself does fit in terms of timing. But all the other things that could be investigated, and that means the story about the witnesses [&], the house, the height of the balcony, all those types of things don't add up in Joran van der Sloot's statement."

This alleged confession comes almost two years after undercover tapes were released by Dutch crime reporter Peter R. de Vries, in which van der Sloot appears to admit he was present when Holloway died and that he helped dump her body in the ocean. De Vries, who sat down for an exclusive interview with ABC News' Chris Cuomo back in 2008 after the tapes went public, says he is "totally convinced Joran is telling the truth" on the tape. "Joran is telling the truth about what happened to Natalee," De Vries told Cuomo, adding that "she died in his arms on the beach that night."

The chief prosecutor in the Holloway case, Peter Blanken, told 'De Telegraaf' that the so-called confession in 2008 resulted in a new investigation into the disappearance of Holloway, but eventually concluded without results. "It became clear that this statement is held together by lies and fantasy," Blanken said. "Times are wrong and named witnesses have denied."

Holloway went missing back in May 2005 during a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Her disappearance received international attention.

The Man Who Lured Van der Sloot to Talk
In the ABC interview in 2008 Patrick van der Eem, described in detail how he painstakingly gained the young Dutch suspect's trust, took his suspicions to Holland's leading investigative reporter and began a sting operation that led to van der Sloot's caught-on-camera admissions.

"I am telling you honestly, I know what happened to that girl," van der Sloot told Van der Eem, on the undercover video. He goes on to say that Holloway died in his arms and that he called a friend to dispose of her body.

On the tape, van der Sloot further describes to van der Eem that Holloway suffered a seizure during a romantic encounter between the pair, who had met hours before at a local nightclub.

At another point, he told van der Eem, "I tried to shake her, and I was shaking the b****. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry."

Van der Sloot said he feels lucky the police were not able to recover Holloway's body. "I think I am incredibly lucky that she's never been found because if she had been found I would be in deep [excrement]," van der Sloot also said on the tape.

De Vries dismissed van der Sloot's claim that he was lying on the tape or that drugs affected his statement, saying "I don't buy these allegations."

Joran Talks
In an exclusive interview with ABC News' Chris Cuomo in 2006, van der Sloot said he planned to have sex with Holloway when they left a bar together.

"We were planning on going to my house, because she said she wanted to go to my house," he said. "My intention was to take her to the house to have sex with her." But the couple did not end up sleeping together, he told Cuomo. "I asked her if she wanted to have sex, and she was fine with it," he said. "I didn't have a condom with me though in my wallet, and I won't have sex with a girl without a condom."

Holloway, who was visiting Aruba on a school trip, met van der Sloot at a casino the night she disappeared. How they met and what went on between them has been the focus of endless speculation by officials and Holloway's friends and family.

"I sat down there and within five minutes, there was a group of girls from the Mountain Brook school that came up to me and sat down next to me and they wanted to play as well," van der Sloot told Cuomo. "They'd already been drinking that day and had drinks with them. We played blackjack for a while, and I told them whether or not to hit."

'I Didn't Want Anyone to Know'
Van der Sloot admitted in the 2006 interview that he had a reputation in Aruba as a ladies' man, but he said he has been portrayed "unfairly" as a "murderer and a rapist and everything I'm not."

"In Aruba that was part of my lifestyle ... going out, being single and picking up girls," he said. "Going out with them, having a good time and then saying goodbye." Soon after admittedly lying to police about having dropped Holloway off at her hotel, van der Sloot became the main suspect in the case.

Van der Sloot -- along with Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe -- were arrested June 9, 2005 on suspicion of involvement in Holloway's disappearance. Van der Sloot admitted that he was with her but denied any wrongdoing at the time. All were released after a court ruled that there wasn't enough evidence to hold them. Van der Sloot said he didn't want to tell the truth because he was scared.

"I didn't want anyone to know," he told Cuomo. "I didn't want anyone to know I left her at the beach."

[abcnews.go.com]
59) Dutch Lady   
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Sunday, February 14, 2010 03:42 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Shocking news from Aruba. Paulus van der Sloot dies suddenly!

Father of Natalee Holloway suspect dies


11/02/2010

Media on Aruba are reporting that Paul van der Sloot, the father of the main suspect in the Natalee Holloway disappearance case, has died.

Joran van der Sloot's father collapsed on Wednesday evening when playing tennis at the Tierra del Sol estate on the Dutch Caribbean island. Emergency service staff were unable to resuscitate him. Paul van der Sloot was aged 57.

His son Joran is still suspected of involvement in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway on Aruba in May 2005. The case was brought back into the limelight when crime reporter Peter R. de Vries secretly filmed Joran van der Sloot claiming that he had dumped Natalee's body in the ocean. The potentially incriminating statement was not accepted as evidence by the court.

Paul van der Sloot, a lawyer who was training as a judge on Aruba, was repeatedly interviewed by the media in connection to his son's alleged involvement in the case. It has never become clear to what extent Mr Van der Sloot knew what Joran's role may have been.

[www.expatica.com]

jan Saturday, April 3, 2010 09:33 PM
Yes it was a very sad passing of a truly amazing man. The private memorial service that was held in Aruba at Alto Vista Chapel had over one hundred "invited" guests. This was following the private funeral service held in The Netherlands.
58) Frannie   
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Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:46 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

From Peter de Vries website:

"Overigens wordt de uitzending van zondag wel heel interessant, kan ik nu reeds onthullen. Voor het eerst sinds lange tijd komen we weer eens terug op Joran van der Sloot…. Wat dacht u daarvan?"


English translation:

the broadcast of Sunday will be very interesting, I can now reveal. For the first time in a long time we come back again on Joran van der Sloot .... How about that?

[www.peterrdevries.nl]

He continues with teasers that this show will be about the interrogations following his van confession. He also mentions Joran's missing shoes. He claims not a day goes by that he is not asked about Joran van der Sloot.

Fluster Sunday, December 13, 2009 04:14 PM
So did Peter get bitten in his azz?

DutchladyinUSA Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:03 AM
Seems this time Peter struck out trying to milk the Joran money train one more time. He shows footage that one must wonder how he even obtained, he actually managed to get sympathy from some who viewed this for Joran, and he now has to distance himself from that criminal Patrick who he once was a hero to himself and Beth. All this and not a peep out of Joran for a very long time. Appears that Peter had better stop stalking Joran because the longer this goes the more it appears that Peter is obsessed and never investigated this case or showed true facts even from the first TV event back in 2006.

Fluster Friday, December 18, 2009 07:07 PM
Peter is obsessed with all types of criminals; seems they are the only ones he goes after, or stalking as you call it.
I wonder if Gielen will ever want to distance herself from her criminal friend Steve Brown? smile
I don't understand why it's such a booboo that Peter obtained confidential material and broadcast it; since certain people from Aruba do the same. Some even know before the judge has seen the files, that a suspect will be freed at a certain time. eek! It's no big deal, has been happening for 4 1/2 years constantly.

CD Sunday, December 20, 2009 04:22 PM
Ms Gielen is associated with Steve Brown? I was not aware of that and doubt that it is true. She is just someone that searches for the truth in the Holloway case in spite of criticism from some because of who she has interviewed and the opinions that she has formed. She apparently has her reasons and until she is proven wrong or the case is solved in another way who knows if she is right or wrong. Her opinion is as worthy as any other.

Peter uses the most unethical means to put on his show of shows each year to try and refocus everything back on Joran. I think this years was a bit of a snooze based on the ratings. I am surprised things are so corrupt in the Netherlands that he can show such footage. I doubt it gave many of the Dutch people a warm and fuzzy type of feeling.

Fluster Monday, December 21, 2009 03:23 AM
Peter's unethical practices were lauded when he tracked other criminals and he was embraced until some people realized he wasn't making Beth the suspect. That was clear long ago.
Opinions that are formed from blog gossip are worthy? Natalee pregnant? Natalee in Rehab? Sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. roll eyes (sarcastic)
And why shouldn't Peter focus on Joran? JOran brought it all on himself imo. Peter is doing what he has always done, no more and no less, but now he's on Joran's trail and Joran certainly has done enough to garner the attention.

Fluster Monday, December 21, 2009 01:03 PM
That being said, I am really over the case that has been riddled with incompetance and bull#@*%! since day 1. After all the bull#@*%! that has been presented as truths, I have really had my fill and leave it all with a very bitter and sour taste that will remain. I am a strong believer that those who have done bad will eventually get their dues paid; it always seems to happen that way...whether it be 10 years or 30 years down the road. I have seen it myself. I have patience...I can wait and leave it until one day I will be reminded when fate returns with a verdict.

As for Peter, I'm not either for or against him. He hasn't changed from the Peter of 2005/06; only popular opinion has changed and I'm certain if he would leave Joran and VDS alone forever that people would once again see him as they did before. Seems that won't happen though. Peter hasn't seemed to ever be wrong on his pinpointing criminals. Not my worry tho, be it 5 years or 30...he doesn't let up. Do I care? No!
Adios.

Fluster Monday, December 21, 2009 01:10 PM
One more thought please, and then I'm gone, forever to the real world. smile

I wouldn't worry so much about Peter as I would for Patrick. Patrick had left his bad life behind for a time but got back into it to deceive Joran. It seems this time he is having a more difficult time shaking the demons that the drugs cause. Some people just get downright happy on drugs but not so Patrick. I wouldn't be worried to be in a room alone with Peter, but Patrick is now a ticking time bomb. I don't wish bad on anyone,

Bella Monday, December 21, 2009 07:29 PM
If Joran is innocent as I believe then he brought nothing on himself. and from what I have heard from my Dutch friends not everyone in Holland every praised Peter, some liked him others hated him for the very reasons I personally find his tactics totally unethical and borderline harassment. And I do not know where you are coming up with these facts that Peter pinpoints criminals with accuracy roll eyes (sarcastic) Who told you that?

You only have posted a couple times here and already you are saying goodbye confused so many say that over and over but those that say it never do say goodbye, as this case must be an addiction for many.

I do agree about Patrick. He is a total loser. But then again he was Beth's hero. She seems to like that type. Rather scary unpredictable lowlife and I would not want to be on the wrong side of Scarface.

sinterklaas Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:34 AM
I wouldn't be worried to be in a room alone with Peter, but Patrick is now a ticking time bomb

Red wine splatter versus blood splatter? HO HO HO Patrick's too much of a coward to do himself in and ruin your silk blouse.

Merry Xmas Everyone,
Hugs
Sinterklaas en Zwarte Piet

Abrielle Croes Sunday, January 3, 2010 11:03 AM
You'd think she'd have a new song and dance in the New Year lol
57) CD   
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Saturday, November 7, 2009 08:14 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

I see that after 4 plus years Natalee was finally declared officially missing from Alabama.

[blog.al.com]


Wonder what took so long? Does this mean she is not considered deceased but only missing?

Dotty Monday, November 9, 2009 10:24 PM
What kind of question is that? A person dead or alive can be missing, not?

I understand it was the FBI who decided that.

flip Wednesday, November 11, 2009 09:17 AM
Seems rather odd to do this now after all these years. It almost seems like the return of Jaycee Dugard might have offered new hope. Or maybe they are finally understanding that there is no reason to totally assume the worst here that it might be she could still be alive. I am not looking into anymore sinister reasons like I read some are, but it does seem rather odd that she was never listed there, more than that she is now listed there.
56) Dotty   
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Monday, November 2, 2009 08:47 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

[www.myspace.com]

Poentje Castro, in jail along with others for 'fencing' after Claudius Phillips place of residence was missing large screen TV and some laptops, etc.
Poentje??!!! Fencing nets good money doesn't it.
All this brings me back to why Patrick may have "threatened Poentje in the first place after an interview to "catch" Patrick. Does Poentje do extortion also? Sure brings him down alot closer to Patricks stylem imo.

On another note, all those jailed were one on one with police captors. Sounds serious.

Dotty Tuesday, November 3, 2009 07:46 AM
It doesn't really sound like "fencing", rather blackkmail. Poentje didn't seem to be "selling" anything.

Pappy Tuesday, November 3, 2009 11:00 AM
Well I admit at the moment things do not look good for Poentje but still it might be good to wait until all the facts surface. There might be a simple innocent explanation for his actions. Ok, yes once again, innocent until proven guilty!

Dotty Wednesday, November 4, 2009 10:24 AM
Well seems to be according to Poentje's lawyer anyway...that is, a reasonable explanation. It's a dang head banger how the Aruban press got things so confused.
The lawyer in a latest article says that Pontje was helping Clausius get back his laptops. Now why didn't Claudius speak up sooner while the news was being made?
The police called it fencing and after his first hearing with the Judge, he was held over. Poentje had the laptops for 2 weeks apparently. There was mention of blackmail also. There's got to be more to it that Claudius spoke up so late and it's probably something to do with whatever Poentje was looking for and what he has found.
It's ok, I'm not worrying about that as this last charade has really fed me up. IUPG can be stuffed!!!
Is it carnival cops or beach cops again, which is about equal to keystone cops? Don't they communicate? What about the press there? I've never heard anything so screwed up in my life.
Now I do understand better the confusion Natalee's family was hit with.

Pappy Wednesday, November 4, 2009 02:01 PM
Well gee I don't know, maybe if anyone looks at the cases or the reporting of other cases anywhere in the world it could be exactly the same. There just is no fact checking anymore. It used to be one needed multiple verification of a story before it went into print in any credible newspaper but that is no longer the case. Then again maybe there is more to this story than meets our eyes, or maybe it is all just a bunch of nothing. I do not think it in anyway says anything about the Holloway case or what happened there with the press or the police. To me that is a big leap. Of course if a person wants to look upon Aruba negatively all the time then it is an expected leap.

Pappy

Dotty Wednesday, November 4, 2009 05:56 PM
I was NOT "all the time" looking at Aruba negatively. My views have been happening over a period of time.More like the last year. Stories are horrendous out of there.

Pappy Wednesday, November 4, 2009 06:46 PM
Well that is good to hear.
Actually if one wanted to look at crime and were from Alabama perhaps one could start reading the stories from Birmingham. Seems like they have quite a little nasty armpit of the nation going on there:
[money.aol.com]

Oh but I don't suppose a tally has been done in the last 4 1/2 years as to which has been more corrupt or had more incidents of crime.

Dotty Wednesday, November 4, 2009 10:58 PM
No, I haven't made a tally mainly b/c B'ham to my knowledge hasn't been advertising vacations with fancy slogans of safety. That was an interesting little story there. Research was done, cops got the crook and he is being punished...end of story. Very clear cut. You don't get that from the Caribbean nations. What you get is bizarre stories from the keystone cops to press that used to have a good rep. There's no comparison between the two places and it's not a matter of crime...it's a matter of what is reported a first, second, third, etc time. Stories change drastically and nothing quite so bizarre as the Poentje/Claudius story.
Poentje committing suicide after being caught. That changed. He was a Fence...that changed to blackmail. He had the laptops 2 weeks and had plenty of time to rectify the situation but he didn't. Claudius is a friend who let him sit in jail for a few days before agreeing that Poentje was helping him get back his laptops...but it took him two weeks to do so. Aruba isn't that big.
I really have not heard anything so bizarre from America yet.
Yes, IUPG for Poentje, Claudius, Joran, K2, Peter deVries, Patrick van der Eem, etc. All are innocent until proven guilty by a court of law, in a court of law.

Jan Thursday, November 5, 2009 07:47 PM
Well I personally do not think that these stories about Poentje rise to the level of concern that some do. It once again appears more the again difference in the way Aruba handles those suspected than the United States or perhaps other countries. They haul people into prison as a suspect and then sort out whether they in fact should be a suspect. it is all bassackwards to me but that is how they do it. Maybe that makes it more confusing for their press too. The Amigoe had this in today, and maybe it will be in their English version tomorrow.

ORANJESTAD — Johnny ‘Poentje’ Castro, presentator van het tv-programma Un Dia den Bida, is gisteren vrijgelaten. Het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) ging akkoord met het verzoek hem op vrije voeten te stellen.
De mediapersoonlijkheid zou eigenlijk tot maandag 9 november in de cel moeten verblijven op verdenking van heling. Hij werd vrijdag 30 oktober aangehouden met een gestolen laptop. Deze computer was enkele weken eerder ontvreemd van zanger Claudius Phillips. Op verzoek van Rossi Marchena, advocaat van de verdachte, besloot de officier van justitie echter om Castro niet langer vast te houden. Castro zegt niet betrokken te zijn bij criminele activiteiten en beweert dat Phillips vanaf het begin op de hoogte was dat hij de laptop in zijn bezit had. De presentator laat aan nieuwswebsite 24ora.com weten dat hij het jammer vindt dat wanneer hij probeert te helpen, zelf vervolgd wordt. Marchena ontkent dat Castro de laptop gekocht zou hebben. Bovendien, zo beweert de advocaat, zou Claudius Phillips zelf aan de politie verklaard hebben dat Poentje Castro hem probeerde te helpen zijn laptops terug te krijgen. Bij de inbraak in het huis van de zanger waren namelijk twee laptops gestolen.



Supposedly Poentje's problems are behind him.

I personally find Aruba as safe and wonderful as any place can be that advertises as a tourist destination. Miami, Atlantic City, Las Vegas, Hollywood, any of those cities want tourists and they all have problems. If people don't feel safe they will go elsewhere. But so far Aruba is more than likely safer than other destinations in the Caribbean.

Dotty Monday, November 9, 2009 10:45 AM
That's quite the friendship Claudius and Poentje have. Claudius lets his friend sit in jail for several days and doesn't say a thing until the lawyer announces that Poentje was actuallly helping Claudius, and like any good friend would do, Poentje hung onto the laptop for 2 weeks to make sure it stayed safe. One never knows when the theives might strike again. Makes perfect sense.

Jan Tuesday, November 10, 2009 01:37 PM


Today in the Amigoe, translation from Windows 7, except for the word Orange City, not too bad.
55) Frannie   
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Saturday, October 31, 2009 12:31 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

A Media Circus in Paradise

An Alabama reporter discovers the press doesn’t quite shine in the Caribbean sun.

[www.ajr.org]

What an interesting article I had never seen posted at another forum. Basically it really explains a good bit about how the media descended on this story back in 2005 and it makes me wonder how that might have affected the outcome as it stands today.

Dotty Monday, November 2, 2009 10:46 PM
It would appear their own media doesn't do any better than all the american media. Take a look at what they did with Poentje...they had him committing suicide. While he was "fencing". eek!

Pappy Tuesday, November 3, 2009 11:03 AM
The media is getting worse everywhere. I do not think the U.S. has a corner on bad reporting. Lack of ethics, little searching for the truth or not getting what used to be standard "multiple sources for confirmation," has left the building. It is too bad as the word journalism is long gone and it is all media hype, ratings and of course $$$.
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Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:36 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

One of the boards had a hot bed topic about how your particular area of the country would have handled the case differently. I so wanted to respond but have not been activated.

I think the biggest difference if one lives in the States would have been in the treatment of Joran being under 18 at the time. Since there was no evidence of any fowl play I just cannot see that he would have spent any time in jail. He also would have had his parents by his side immediately none if this his dad being a judge stuff and his dad would have cautioned him with the aid of an attorney as to how much to say and maybe even got the truth of where she was dropped off right away. But I just do not see that there would have been a search of their homes or too much different. The U.S. is pretty protective of rights and unless some evidence showed up right away new that we never saw I think the case might have been pretty quiet. I also do not see the family of Natalee manipulating the police like the seemed to in Aruba.

Pappy Tuesday, November 3, 2009 11:11 AM
I live in a rather large city so I dare say many things would have been different. Based on what seemed to be going against the security guards I can see them being brought in, especially if that found articles of the teens in their efffects.

Joran was under the age of 18, so I can see a big difference there as he would have had an attorney with him and also his parents. Could be that the parents along might have gotten Joran to fess up right then and there might not have been any Holiday Inn story at all.

If there was no more than that, would there even been a search of the VDS residence? I doubt it unless they had some reason to suspect she was actually there. With such thin or or no evidence they might not have even searched his apartment.

The Kalpoes also would have had a lawyer and maybe they would not have told the Holiday Inn story.

Would there have been a midnight raid on the VDS home? I certainly do not see that happening where I am from and that in itself might have changed the course of this whole case.

Our area is very quick to react to missing children even before the 48 hour minimum but based on this story I am not sure that they would have reacted any sooner than the 48 hours. All interesting and hard to say. But Aruba is a tiny island and maybe ill prepared for a story that became the biggest missing person case in the history of recent times.
53) DJ   
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Saturday, September 12, 2009 09:23 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

Why not Mountain Brook?

Reading an article this morning about the missing Yale student, I ran across this, and boy did it jump out at me:


Le did not just leave her purse and cell phone behind. She left her friends, family and fiancé, all of whom need to be interviewed carefully by the police. They will have to figure out if she was happy and carefree before her disappearance, or if something was causing her anxiety and concern – something serious enough that it may have caused her hide out.


This was not an option ever with Natalie and it always has bothered me because knowing the mindset of her just might have opened up a whole new window for clues as to what happened. Immediately all of those teens should have been talked to. Why was this never done? Just because this happened in Aruba does not mean that there might not have been things going on or upsetting her at home that could have caused her disappearance. We just do not know and probably will never know now.

Dotty Saturday, September 12, 2009 01:25 PM
Knowing the mindset of all might have been a plus, not just Natalee and friends, also Joran and friends and from where they were coming. The "boys" have admitted to seeking out pretty tourist girls...that seems to be a known? What was Natalee's mindset when she left an establishment late in the night, with strangers? What was Joran's mindset when he changed his mind at the last minute and frantically looked for some boys to accompany him to CnC's? Why was he disappointed to have Satish along? Was Natalee upset with someone? Was she being reckless for that reason? That we will never know. Joran seems to know that of all the girls Natalee and her friend seemed to drink the heaviest and the most...so why did he choose Natalee? I'm not sure I buy the "Ruth pushed us together" bit. Joran has been well known to apply blame everywhere except himself, imo.

bella Saturday, September 12, 2009 02:01 PM
It was not an option with Natalee because of HER MOTHER. Her mother lied to ALE and FBI. She also insisted the friends NOT cooperate with Aruban authorities and lie to the media.

Le's story is more troublesome b/c she wasn't some drunk teen who od'd on a girls gone wild weekend.

DJ Saturday, September 12, 2009 05:44 PM
Seems they interviewed many of Joran\'s friends and also the Kalpoes, so not sure about all that.
Joran did not want Satish to come along? Never heard that.
They might have done this many times before? Done what. hooked up with tourist girls, seems pretty normal as that is what guys that age do.
Joran picked the girl that drank the most? I thought her friends said she was a responsible drinker.
Natalee\'s mind set that night? Well now that might again have been helpful to have interviewed her friends. And right away as bella says before mother Beth or Aunt Marsha began to control their words.

ArubanVisitor Monday, September 14, 2009 09:42 AM
Hard to interview a group that flees the island, even when their supposed BBF is missing. If they really were wanting to be helpful they could have come back, they could have insisted on trying to explain the details of everything their so called friend did that week, but they didn't. They were not all even ready willing and able to give statements to the FBI later on. To me this was not helpful and also some of their early statements about Joran were totally wrong as he was not even the guy they thought he was. All of this led to confusion and was not helping this case.

Dotty Monday, September 14, 2009 10:59 AM
I think they had a flight to catch, didn't they? If they had stayed over, wouldn't it have been a problem with accomodation? I understand most hotels were booked solid pretty well.
Besides, as with most teens at all hot spot vacations, they sleep around a bit, so it wasn't very likely they were worried when one of the girls, or guys didn't sleep in their own bed for the night, not? Seems that is what they all thought...that Natalee may have spent the night with Joran. At the time they were leaving, Natalee was merely late. Why go into such a panic and change all those plans when Natalee's situation may just have been a simple one, as they thought, that is, sleeping over somewhere and sleeping in.There is another forum where a handful keep hammering away at, "why didn't they help search?" Who then knew at the moment that the planes were ready to leave that a search was needed? They didn't apparently.
Are you saying there was a reason to panic and go all out just b/c one kid was a little late, at that point?
So Joran was not the guy they thought he was. Joran is not the guy I thought he was either, for 2 years. roll eyes (sarcastic)
Besides the last night, those that didn't have alternative plans in their rooms, were out getting drunk. I'd like to see anyone do that and try and remember details after. IMO, the kids were protecting their own hides, b/c what they did in Aruba wasn't going to stay in Aruba if they talked. They found out different.
Better question yet, is why J2K were planning all those stories and why did they know they would have to mess up the investigation with lies??
Joran himself stated he didn't really see much of K2 after he met them, and then after Natalee went missing, they were constantly together. Why was that? They were lonely? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Pappy Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:23 AM
Never seen any indication that the Kalpoes and Joran had not been spending time together prior to this. Seems it had been and off again on again friendship as many are. Naturally after the Twitty brigade descended on the Van der sloot house in the middle of the night the boys knew that some crazy American family seemed out to get them so it makes sense that they spent a few hours discussing this unpleasant situation for what it might be, the beginning of a personal assault on only them. Since that all proved true, they probably should have met more. It is your opinion that they were planning stories before hand. If they had really planned, they would IMO done a much better job. The fact that they were so inept to me shows they did not plan at all.

For me what the Brookies did in the first couple days is not so troubling but after they knew there was indeed a missing friend of theirs, then I find not offering honest help very wrong. My guess is a couple things, none of these kids were that close to Natalee after all and they stood too much to lose themselves for offering any help that might have gotten them in any kind of trouble. All this about her being such a close good friend to these girls and guys was IMO not true, she was on the outside looking in and might have something to do with why she behaved out of character down there.

I have never heard anything about the K's or Joran from a reliable source that would cause me to believe they did Nat any harm. JMHO of course.

onc... Friday, October 9, 2009 08:24 AM
Pappy, I agree with some of what you say.
For me what the Brookies did in the first couple days is not so troubling but after they knew there was indeed a missing friend of theirs, then I find not offering honest help very wrong. My guess is a couple things, none of these kids were that close to Natalee after all and they stood too much to lose themselves for offering any help that might have gotten them in any kind of trouble. All this about her being such a close good friend to these girls and guys was IMO not true, she was on the outside looking in and might have something to do with why she behaved out of character down there.

Weren't the early statements from those kids, they thought Natalee stayed over at Joran's and slept in? Is there a need for all to have stayed because one slept in?
Natalee was late as far as they knew. You all fault Beth for jumping to conclusions of rape and murder, yet you expect the kids to feel a need they needed to have searched.
Where would they all stay if they had wanted to? There was No Room At the busy Inn.
At that point no one thought there needed to be a search yet. Those kids are all over privileged brats, but Natalee's fate really had nothing to do with them, imo. Unless you of course believe Joran that Ruth pushed them together. I have not seen that written or said by any other person except Joran and he's not the most reliable person.
I have never heard anything about the K's or Joran from a reliable source that would cause me to believe they did Nat any harm. JMHO of course

Strange that the boys had a need to start fabricating a story even before the Alabama crew hit town.
If I could have a sigline...it would be this: If you believe in IUPG, what do you have against Freedom of speech?

Pappy Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:38 AM
onc... Yes Freedom of Speech is good but Right to Remain Silent in the States can be an even more important legal right when one is suspected of a crime. Had this happened here I doubt that any of these boys would have been advised to say anything. What they did do that night is create a lame story that they thought would alleviate in the short run but still send the police in the general direction (Holiday Inn is a stones throw from the beach area) By the way they searched the hut area anyway so not sure what difference it really made. The guards were suspicious in of themselves and I still personally wonder about them.

Getting back to the Brookie gang. Like I said it was not that they did not stay in Aruba that troubles me because certainly changing travel plans is next to impossible. It is the way they all were like little robots in what they said. I almost feel there was a script when they spoke about the trip as they all sounded the same and much of what they said showed to be not exactly true. And where was the cooperation later with the FBI. Some refused to even speak with them.

Dotty Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:06 AM
Pappy, I have nothing against the right to remain silent...too bad it didn't stay that way and let the cops do thier work. Instead there has been story after story for bucks.

As far as the guards went one had racked up misdemeanors, they exchanged drugs for expensive equipment, etc. That little bit of drug dealing is like a pee in the ocean, as far as I'm concerned regarding their dealing against Aruba's history of drug containers coming through to other countries as well as Aruba. Look at the kafuffle with Patrick..they got nothing straight to report and then it was dropped like a hot potatoe. A rented vehicle (of Patricks) twice broken into, old charges and new charges...very lame.

The Brookies are spoiled brats who were covering their own butts. I think they were too hung over and too lacking in sleep to remember detail and probably for those reasons preferred not to talk nonsense. IMO.

Dotty Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:09 AM
And to add to above, since the Brookies were not the last known to be with Natalee, doesn't the right to remain silent apply to them as well?
52) Ace   
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Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

Joran has been awfully quiet lately but a few months back didn't he do another stunt for $$$$ and we have yet to hear how all that went down. The polygraph that he did and was filmed over in Netherlands. What happened with all that? If that big fat man paid Joran a lot of money you would think he would want to get his money's worth. It is the fall season now maybe it'll be on Dutch station soon?

Blue Friday, September 11, 2009 02:41 PM
Still negotiating from what I have read. Perhaps in a few weeks something will be announced. Doubt that it will be anything to get excited about though, but it might help keep the case in the news. Any publicity is good for that purpose.

Dotty Saturday, September 12, 2009 01:29 PM
Now that the summer break is over, we should be hearing something, not? Jaap had said, that what he has...leaves Joran no slack for answering to certain questions, or something to that effect. If that's the case, then I imagine there have been people working to stop what Jaap has planned, not?

Pappy Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:34 AM
People working to stop this ... really? If it was a big deal and hurtful to Joran it would have been aired right away, don't ya think? Sound like a Greta, wait until the November $weeps? Does the Netherlands have that too?

Dotty Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:13 AM
Another money grubber trying to get rich on the case. If he had something incriminating to tell, he likely would have/should have made a statement to ALE...who likely wouldn't do anything with it anyway. They want the case to go away. Like Tromps, etc. That isn't good for tourism and image.
51) Anon   
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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:07 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

As a frequent traveller of the Carribean I am always amazed at how few people that I speak to have even heard of the Holloway case and even those that have never really felt it impacted the country of Aruba in much of a negative way. I do not think it especially did the damage that the boycott group had hoped it was to do.

I see often on that scared monkey board posting pictures of no one on the beach but when I have been there the beaches were loaded. I just don't think this case has been hurt so much by this but more the economy of other countries in general.

Dotty Friday, September 11, 2009 06:37 PM
Several of the people I know from Carribean nations, and living here, know the case well, and they have opinions that are quite strong. It all depends whom one talks to.

linda Saturday, September 12, 2009 09:08 AM
I am sure that people who live in Aruba DO have strong feelings about this case. I bet the people that live in Boulder Colorado have strong feelings about the Unsolved Case of Jon Benet. But people have not stopped going to Boulder and the University of Col is still popular. Unsolved crimes are a part of life, something these crazy boycotters never seemed to get. I doubt very much that it has caused many to not travel to Aruba. And for each that might have decided against going, 5 other ones probably said lets go to Aruba, even out of curiosity. Funny how people like to drive by those car accidents and watch. I bet at this point no real effect at all.

Dotty Saturday, September 12, 2009 01:42 PM
Most of the people who went to Aruba out of curiousity have loved Aruba and keep going back. I would never boycott or share in a boycott against any nation because it simply is counter-productive and gets less answers and just alot of hostility. IMO Beth probably felt she had no ohter option because truths weren't forthcoming. I do believe there were people who tried to change her mind on many things and gave her "stories" that may not have been honest either.
It's not the few missing people that would change my mind about going there, rather the stories that have come out of there since the disappearance and by whom. So many have degraded a missing and presumed dead girl. For that reason and others I couldn't muster up the desire to visit Aruba.That's not boycotting, just that Aruba doesn't sound desirable in case I should face a legal problem not brought on by myself. The pictures are beautiful out of the Carribean, however Europe is my place of adventure, and there are many more missing people there.

bella Saturday, September 12, 2009 02:07 PM
When I speak to friends or family across the country, nobody knows who she is and if they have a vague recollection of the name, they could care less. Drunken teens get in trouble in Florida and Cancun as well. The only difference is their parents don't go on publicity tours to smear locals and lie about their drunken daughter or son.

ArubanVisitor Monday, September 14, 2009 09:34 AM
Having been to Aruba about every other year for the last 20, I can say most Arubans want to put this behind them and move on. In the beginning the issue of Joran and the Kalpoes guilt was mixed and now it might be leaning more in Joran's favor but still probably more about how those more recent "so called confessions," brought more bad publicity against Aruba than actual guilt for the disappearance of Natalee. But most have put even that behind them and have moved on. A lot of them have seen many a drunk young teen on their island celebrating and do know what that can lead to. And there is still major resentment against Beth for all her tirades of untruth and for wanting a boycott against the island and its people that really did try and help her that summer. Most think she was not so very gracious and grateful.

Dotty Monday, September 14, 2009 11:11 AM
Beths tirades were mainly out of desperation imo. She was being given alot of different stories...even Dompig was clear on that. I suppose she did the PR to get help. I don't think all of what she said were lies, though some may have been embellished quite a bit.
I have info from co-workers who visit Aruba and question people when they have the chance and I hear alot different than what you are saying. Especially since Joran showed on tape, Natalee shaking before she didn't respond anymore. That was never talked about on blogs/forums. That was a question that ALE asked Beth and Jug, whether Natalee had seizures. Then out of the blue, Joran mentions the seizures on the tape. It wasn't the weed either.
I agree most Arubans want this behind them, but they are an honest lot and they will talk if asked.
I agree the boycott didn't build any bridges thats for sure.

CD Tuesday, September 15, 2009 07:31 PM
There is not one person in my whole world of friends that believes one thing that woman (Beth) has ever said on tv. She was nasty, unfeeling and never seemed to have a clue about her daughter nor showed any genuine emotion, or even know what her daughter was really like.

If Natalee had been anywhere in the states and disappeared I would, based on her mom's actions alone believe she absolutely ran away. Throw her stepdad into the mix and I would guarantee it.

Makes it harder to think this is what happened in a foreign country but does not make it impossible.

Dotty Friday, October 9, 2009 08:37 AM
CD she was desperate and was being given quite a runaround. Even Dompig denied some things in discussions that were later to be found in statements.
Anyone missing a flesh and blood relative would get desperate in such a situation. She acted as though no one took her serious. She burned her bridges with all her PR I must admit. For that she will not get any answers I'm sure and it's too bad Aruba made that stance.

CD Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:52 AM
Dotty ... When a child goes missing parents certainly are desperate, no question or disagreement there. But to jump on the island with a bunch of angry friends in hand and begin to start taking over with that 3 a.m. launch on the VDS home seems way over the line. Then there were the actions, so I have heard of Jug and his pals storming all over the city like a page out of the Wild West. I would imagine the police became very leery very early on with this family and not having the leadership of an experienced group of investigators they put barriers up and it caused a separation of cooperation from almost day 1.

I do not believe I have ever read of any family that was quite as aggressive as they were in Aruba with an investigation and with all that, it still got them no where. Plus the media was a contributor because their attack on Aruba being almost a banana republic right from the beginning coupled with the actions of Beth and Jug's crew, all portraying Aruba in a bad light just fueled this case to a point that could never be turned around. Lots of lessons could be learned on what not to do by this case.

Dotty Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:24 AM
Beth probably thought Natalee had stayed with Joran the night and she probably thought they were taking her home that night or in the morning.
What were ALE thinking when they allowed this 3 AM visit? It was their jurisdiction. All they needed to do was put a stop to the visit or offer jail overnight if they didn't comply.
Yes, those stories of Jug and friends barging around like Texas bulls in Aruba was something else. What makes a person do that sort of thing? I would say INCORRECT info would do that. Strange tips that Natalee is in a crackhouse would make anyone barge around.
I wouldn't consider Aruba a banana republic b/c they have a very minimal rate of people with a lower education compared to other larger countries. They shouldn't have acted like a banana republic with the case. They did it to themselves and blamed the Americans.

CD Saturday, October 17, 2009 01:58 AM
Sorry I do not think Aruba did that bad of a job considering how inexperienced they were in ever having what became such a high profile case. What really made this case different and what caused the greatest challenge was the entire media force from the USA descending on the island almost immediately and attacking almost immediately Aruban/Dutch law. It seems the fact that their law enforcement had different ways was not quite right for the American law critics. Plus the family of Natalee seemed to feel bolstered by the media's criticism and maybe the ALE started reacting to the family and the media. This little island has a fairly safe record compared to the other islands for serious crime. It is a fact that almost seemed lost after awhile.

One thing though I wish the police had prevented the Van der Sloot house invasion in the middle of the night. Had that never happened I think we might be at a different place today with this story.

Dotty Monday, October 19, 2009 06:56 PM
CD, I'm not saying Aruba didn't do a good job in what became a high profile case. One needs to only glimpse at the discovery log plus countless other material to know how much work they did. They got off to a shakey start though and imo lost what never can be retrieved again. I can only wonder what might have been had there not been a home invasion at 3 AM.
To date Aruba hasn't solved any missing persons cases, and imo they want them to just go away.
Take a look at Hogan missing in Curacao...blaming the family and his nightlife. So far American media has said very little and I wonder if they are holding back to see how this all unfolds. I have read now countless writings how people feel about Hogan's disappearance and the first thing on their minds was how will this affect tourism, and their living. I suppose people who work for tourism have to be worried, however it gave me a bitter taste. If I were to go there for vacation, would I be viewed as "income"? For myself I have made up my mind, I will vacation where "tourism" isn't the only means of employment and money in the pocket for the locals.

CD Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:02 AM
Why would the American media cover the case of James Hogan? There are thousands of people that go missing all the time and unless you are white or young it rarely gets covered unless it is a slow news time. It was the perfect time for Natalee to go missing as far as coverage goes because it was summer, no politics or anything serious going on. The minute Katrina happened and hard news was available those news outlets bolted from Aruba never to return.

Actually I think the media set this case back. It is what the police are doing that counts not what the media is saying about what the police is doing. Other than circulating her picture for aid in maybe locating her that is all the media is really good for.

Aruba cannot help that there income comes from the tourist industry. What else is there on a tiny island? Actually that should make them more interested in solving the case not less.

I guess it goes back to whether one thinks they did the best job they could have with this case. From my end I believe they did. Way too many cases unsolved all over to just focus on one missing girl as the only case that absolutely should have been solved over any other. This one just seemed to have the right people in charge to make it more visible. All that visibility could have worked against the poor girl, we just don't know.

Dotty Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:27 AM
Well I don't think tourism is the only income, but it's all that the average person in the hospitality field has, and I do believe they wanted the case solved. Someone in the upper ranks must be making a killing on drugs that come through there although that doesn't benefit the average joe.
I am confused about the safety on Aruba. I know it's touted as a safe and happy island, however Glenda just posted at RU about the underworld operating there and Natalee was the scapegoat for. Very interesting stories out of Aruba.

Frannie Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:26 AM
Seems drugs is a part of the Caribbean and if a young person is smart they will respect that and stay away from that element down there when they travel. Lots of talk about how heavily this Alabama group of teens was with drug usage, that being the case almost anything could have happened to her. And if it was drugs I doubt we will ever know. For the average tourist that stays away from that element I would imagine that it is very safe.
50) Roberta   
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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:53 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

I admit I am borrowing a post from another board but it seemed interesting and I just read there and never have posted, so will throw it out here.

If Joran and or the Kalpoes did not do something to Natalee who else might be looked at since we are at 4 plus years and sort of stuck on no news and no solutions. Is it time to begin again and look at everyone all over again?

Who might be looked at?

crimejunkie Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:05 AM
I do not know but do other jurisdictions just sit on only one suspect and never look at other ones after such a long time? Surely there might be another direction to look at.

I never will forget when Greta VanSusteren went first to Aruba that summer. One of her first shows she spoke of the unsavory people she saw around the casinos down there. It has always stood out in my mind. What happened to all of them? If Holloway was doing drugs as Bill O'Reily has suggested then perhaps one of those characters came upon her on her way back to the hotel. If she was wanting to extend her stay, doing a little drugs that night would be a likely way to do it.

Is the real cover up in Aruba covering up their drug trading going on, maybe with unsuspecting tourists.

Remember Natalee Thursday, September 10, 2009 07:31 PM
You have got to be kidding. There is a reason this punk is still a suspect in this case. Yes even after 4 1/2 years. And I know the name of the book, says no evidence BUT that does not mean there is no evidence. As far as I am concerned this kid lies like no other and is a real sociopath and just because they have not nailed his sorry a*s does not mean that he is not as Dompig said, guilty as hell. Yeah I know it is just a board topic but to me there is no one else and it is too bad he has confused the case with so many lies.

Dotty Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:20 PM
Do other jurisdictions sit on one suspect for 4 and 1/2 and never look at other ones?

As far as I know, only when they have a reason to.

ArubanVisitor Monday, September 14, 2009 09:48 AM
More likely IMO that it was a totally unknown to all of us person that might have been one at the Soul Beach Festival or another visitor to the island that weekend. There are lots of people at times like that in Aruba, often coming by sea, maybe even from another island or S. America. It is so possible that anyone of a dozen unknowns could have come in contact with this girl and we may never know. Sorry I just am not convinced and never have been that it was the Kalpoes or Joran. If he left her there, she easily could have come in contact with someone else.

Dotty Monday, September 14, 2009 11:18 AM
I think it was Poentje ( of teleAruba) and Greta. They are both Scientologists
They took Natalee into the Scientology ship that was parked there along with beachfest people. wink
49) Jan   
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Saturday, September 5, 2009 10:05 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Aruba Today

Nice to see my friend Julia have an exciting and interesting evening in Aruba.




Click on above image for improved view!

Rizzo Sunday, September 6, 2009 09:51 AM
Nice to see a happy Julia who hopefully like other Arubans have put this case in the past and are getting on with their lives.

I always liked Renfro, she seemed to be honest and fair.

ArubanVisitor Monday, September 14, 2009 09:49 AM
Never met her, just seen her on TV but she seems like a nice person.
48) Kara   
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Friday, September 4, 2009 12:46 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Lifetime Movie Network Once again will feature on their "True Movie Thursday," The Natalee Holloway Story, next Thursday September 10, 2009, at 8 P.M.

AMV Saturday, September 5, 2009 02:17 PM
Nice that you alert people to the future airings of this movie.

While I am sure those that follow this case are pleased that this movie is rebroadcast over and over again on the LMN, it is interesting to note that the ratings for this movie are rather low. It only garnered 2 1/2 stars out of 5, where many and most Lifetime movies are 4 and 5 star events. So while the subject matter might be important, there is no question as a movie it was poorly done and the acting was abysmal.

crimejunkie Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:09 AM
Tonight is the night, the movie will be on again. Each time I watch it I see more things that I question. I am not a big believer in this story the way it was told. Not that any publicity about the case is necessarily bad because it brings the case to the attention of the public. I just am not so sure that this is anything but the story as seen by only one pair of biased eyes.

Blue Friday, September 11, 2009 03:01 PM
Finally saw the movie last night. While it may not have been the best movie ever made it still was quite an emotional one. It certainly showed the torment her family went through and how it effected them. I am glad they made this movie. It helps to keep the story alive.

bella Saturday, September 12, 2009 02:11 PM
I thought the storyline was interesting as it showed beth to be a liar. Her 15 mins are over. SHe's not getting another nose and face job out of it. I say nose job, b/c I was told by a seemingly reliable source that the nose got a fix too. lol

ArubanVisitor Monday, September 14, 2009 09:51 AM
No one I know in Aruba believes this version of the story. I think this belongs on the "Fiction Channel."
47) annie   
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Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:14 AM Write a response to this post Permalink

(47) Never Give Up Hope - I am one that refuses to give up on Natalee being alive!!




Tahoe Girl Missing For 18 Years May Be Alive

August 27, 2009 9:30 AM

SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, Calif. (CBS13)
A possible break in the 1991 kidnapping case of an 11-year-old girl from South Lake Tahoe. A woman showed up in Contra Costa County yesterday, claiming to be Jaycee Lee Dugard, who has been missing for 18 years.

This morning, Dugard's mother, Terry Probyn is flying to Northern California from her home in Southern California to meet with the woman who claims to be her missing daughter.

CBS13 spoke with Dugard's stepfather Carl Probyn late Wednesday, who says the FBI facilitated a phone call between the woman in Concord and Dugard's mother Terry who now lives in Riverside County. According to Carl Probyn, this woman walked into a Bay Area police station identifying herself as Jaycee Lee Dugard, who was 11-years-old at the time of her disappearance.

The El Dorado County Sheriff's Department has announced they will hold a press conference Thursday to discuss the high-profile kidnapping case from 1991.

Dugard was kidnapped the morning of June 10, 1991, while walking from her home to the school bus stop on Washoan Blvd. in Meyers. Her stepfather said he watched a stranger pull up and yank Jaycee Lee into a two-toned gray sedan as she kicked and screamed. Probyn believed a man and woman were in the vehicle. Although there were several false sightings, Dugard was never seen again.

CBS13's Kurtis Ming investigated the cold case in 2003 when there was renewed hope Dugard may have been alive. There were several similarities to the Elizabeth Smart case out of Utah. Smart and Dugard resemble one another. Both girls were abducted in the month of June, 11 years apart. One of Smart's alleged captors, Wanda Barzee resembled the female captor in the composite sketch in Dugard's case. Dugard was kidnapped near Highway 50 which leads to Salt Lake City.

Dotty Thursday, August 27, 2009 04:29 PM
There aren't that many happy endings unfortunately. Those people that take children and the children survive, most likely they needed the children as some sort of guarantee. Possibly so they can apply for social assistance or other government handouts. Natalee was not of that age that she could be brainwashed by abductors.

tmj Thursday, August 27, 2009 04:45 PM
People should never give up hope. This story if it proves to be true is a perfect example of never say never, not without a body. And there have been way too many weird and very strange elements to this case to make me believe for sure that Natalee is even dead.

As for her not being of the age that she could not be brainwashed? What age would that be. History shows two examples of a girl around the age of Natalee being brainwashed, Patty Hearst and Elizabeth Smart.

Stockholm Syndrom
[www.dannyhaszard.com]

Dotty Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:28 PM
Patty Hearst was in a totally different league. She had everything she could have ever wanted...life gets boring for those that everything. I doubt she was kidnapped and brainwashed. She wanted to live the other side of the coin.
Smart was probably scared and was brainwashed easily through fear. Strange stories didn't surround these cases like Natalee's. Blogdom gave silly people who want to detract from the case, an avenue to do so. Natalee has been under the sea very soon after she didn't show at the HI.

Rizzo Saturday, August 29, 2009 01:39 PM
Interesting how even a post of hope about another missing girl found, can have such differing opinions. I was an avid reader of the Patty Hearst case and I disagree completely that she wanted a new life or the "other side of the coin," whatever that means. What she did with her life in later years was a credit to whom she was as a person.

As for Elizabeth Smart and Natalee, why couldn't Natalee have been brainwashed through fear if she was taken? No one knows one thing for sure about her other than she is missing. There is no evidence (like the book says) and just because a bunch of random people on message boards have concocted a lot of harebrained theories ON BOTH SIDES, it does not mean they are true.

What of course makes the most sense is that she was lost at sea or that she was disposed of at sea by someone. So maybe we will never know for sure. But really until the case is truly solved and when cases like Jaycee prove that miracles do happen, then why not keep the faith in a miracle. I have read where there are those that absolutely do believe that Natalee is alive. Who am I to say otherwise. I will hope and pray that they are right.

Dotty Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:35 AM
I didn't follow Patty Hearst after her incarceration so I have o idea what she became. When she was suppoosedly kidnapped, she fell right into the crime immediately. shehad to have been very weak in mind if her captors made such a strong impression right off the bat. The other side of the coin...a life she didn't know may have been exciting for her. Living on the run.
I think it's great the girl was found finally, since many people apparently just didn't want to get involved and report what they saw and heard. Luckily for Jaycee that her captor was trusting her and taking her to business meetings.
I've read before where girls were imprisoned for long periods by molesters and finally were somehow able to get to freedom. The majority don't have that kind of luck. What society needs to do is recognize these predators and watch them...that is, take an interest in their methods of operating and aid Police in capture by way of tips, etc. There are groups in Canada doing that on sites and one can be surprised by all the tips that can come forward just by local lay people...the general public.

crimejunkie Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:13 AM
Never heard of this story before. What a horrible situation for this girl, now a woman. Wonder what her parents thought all these years as she was never found. Did they think she was dead? Did they give up on her or continue to accuse others of the crime? Just musing here a bit. Certainly this has to give anyone with a missing child some hope. Maybe 18 years from now we will read here that Natalee has been held somewhere too?

Dotty Saturday, September 12, 2009 02:05 AM
"The last time I talked with Beth, I was real hopeful. She said, 'One day, I am burying her. The next day, I am wanting her home alive.' It's just like the waves in that ocean," she said tearfully. "It is a ride." (this offered by Marilyn Whitlock)

She said the Aruban justice system has confused and frustrated the Twitty family since their arrival, especially since many of suspects in the case have been released.
<snip>

...but she said everyone has different theories about exactly what happened to her.
end of quote.

I can imagine how frustrated and confused Beth was especially since all the scenarios and wild goose chases that led from "tips". She certainly doesn't sound like someone who knows where her dtr is.
46) Jan   
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Tuesday, August 25, 2009 01:53 PM Write a response to this post Permalink

Patrick Van der Eem Arrested in Aruba

A man who became apart of this case almost three years after Natalee went missing in Aruba, Patrick van der Eem has once again become a news item by failing to pay his Aruba hotel bill, becoming aggressive and also for cocaine possession.




Read more about the story here as it develops:


[noevidenceofacrime.com]

Dotty Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:21 PM
All those large hotels are American, and even if they aren't, they make sure they aren't stuck with a bill a patron can't pay. They take imprints and very likely make a credit check to make sure the person is good for the stay. That Patrick was able to get away without paying in 4 major hotels sounds a bit strange, doesn't it?? Or did they make an exception in his case and not ask for a credit card?
Was it the threats that got him jailed then? Or the cocaine? Or is it a set up?

This is what Peter deVries says:


De Vries: Well I was very pleased to hear that the police on Aruba rushes out full force if you do not pay your hotel bill...

-laughter-

De Vries: Because I also know the story of someone who has admitted that he had let pass away an innocent girl only to cover that up afterwards, and after that lied about that to the entire world and mainly the mother of the girl in a horrible way, and who now just walks around, and if any tips surface about that person the police in Aruba often does not have time for that, so this is very good news
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love sarcastic humour.

funnygirl Wednesday, August 26, 2009 12:32 AM
How exactly does anyone check into a hotel without a credit card, not once but several times? I would like to know because that is where I want to go on my next vacation.

The story sounds a bit strange to me but then what else is new when it comes to this crazy case. Now the part about the aggressive behavior and the cocaine that seems right on.

I do wonder how some that thought this man was a hero are viewing him now. He always seemed a bit scary to me.

Peter's comments though were pretty funny. Sarcasm is always good to me, too!

Dotty Wednesday, August 26, 2009 01:24 AM
@funnygirl:
I never loved the man or considered him MY hero. He had gained Joran's trust and at that time deVries knew he would be the one for a set-up. He got Joran talking. I'm not making fun of a parent of a missing and presumed dead girl for calling him a herpo like some other place is doing, and yet by usually contructive posters. eek!
Whatever gets the job done. If deVries had gotten a Priest to befriend Joran, what do you think would have happened?
Patrick has quite a past, but he's the kind that many Police units pay for "tips".

Take your credit card when you go to Aruba. Those hotels are all American and in this country the hotels all require up front credit card.

crimejunkie Wednesday, August 26, 2009 09:54 PM
Should be interesting as the facts unravel as to whether this was as much about a hotel bill or perhaps some other more serious issue that we are not even privy to. I cannot imagine that the hotel problem is even the true reason for the arrest. Seems to me that the Dutch are a little closer to the vest with their information they give out, especially because of who this man is. Always something with this case though.

Dotty Thursday, August 27, 2009 01:26 AM
A whole big team for unpaid hotel bills? Usually the team consists of several LE plus some from the OM's office not? Ann Angela claimed death threats were made and reported by the person they were made to. He may just end up being the "disposer" of Natalee yet, with Perry's boat. roll eyes (sarcastic) Yes always something with this case and so much BS I'm actually getting fed up with it.

Jan Tuesday, September 1, 2009 10:51 AM
There never was a good Dutch or English article about Patrick's release. Last week though he was released after paying a fine and paying off the bills he had incurred. So a free man Patrick is once again. Drama over, for now.

crimejunkie Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:21 AM
Released? well I hope if he is still in Aruba they keep an eye on him down there. I still have some suspicions about this man and the case. Maybe the reason he wanted to get so close to Joran was strictly personal directly related to his own family or others he might know that are involved in the Holloway disappearance. Strange things have happened. Hope they keep any eye on him.

Dotty Saturday, September 12, 2009 01:55 AM
There never was a decent article stating why and for what he was taken into custody either. Drugs first, then he didn't have enough that would be considered not for personal use. Then death threats, then old death threats from a year or so ago which really isn't possible under their system. Odd that he had 2 rental vehicles ransacked...they weren't looking for drugs....
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