Confusion over June 13th Police Statement by Joran van der Sloot.
This particular statement has been puzzling. The translation floating around had it as "Deepak came with two dogs." What is interesting is that the Kalpoe household has no dogs. And although Joran's family does have two dogs, Deepak wouldn't have had access to them. The "two dogs" translation doesn't seem to relate to anything in this case.
What seems more likely is that Joran actually said, "I called Deepak and he came with the Honda." The words, "twee honden" (two dogs), as written by the transcriber (deposition reporter), most likely was said by Joran as the similarly sounding "de Honda" (the Honda). Deepak's car was that silver Honda we heard so much about.
This was indeed the purpose to try and understand and bring some degree of clarity to these statements. With this new interpretation I believe that is what we have done.
FierljepperFriday, August 7, 2009 09:12 AM
Jan,
Agree with your conclusion. This sounds much more logical to me. Joran was sobbing during the post lunch chat with Van der Straaten and it's highly likely that he misinterpreted Joran's words.
Please note that you have left out a Q&A from that a particular statement:
(...)
To my question to Joran if he can tell what happened after the girl had fallen asleep at the Fisherman's huts, he answers: “I called Deepak and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and done something to her.”
To my question where the girl then is buried, he answers: I think she’s buried next to the Fisherman's Huts, other then that I wouldn’t know.
I propose Joran to answer the following question with just yes or no. I ask Joran if the girl was thrown into the sea? He answers: “No, I mean, I don't know.”
During the conversation Joran shows varying emotions. Sometimes he cries, sometimes he is very direct in his answers. Joran also indicated he felt very sorry for his family, and that he is having the best contact with his father. I ask him why he then has lied to his father about the Holiday Inn. Joran responds that he has disappointed his father in doing so.
(...)
So I'd add: Interrogator: Joran, please answer the following question with only yes or no? Was the girl thrown into the sea?
Joran: No, I mean, I don't know.
FierljepperFriday, August 7, 2009 10:01 AM
Please note that the heading "June 13th Police Statement by Joran van der Sloot" is not correct. These are just summaries of observations made by police officers. Joran's real June 13th PV has not been leaked and only elements of it are listed in Joran's book (so I guess he has it). Please find the translation below. Think it's important to include it in the flow of statements:
Monday June 13th 2005
At 14:40, I withdraw my earlier statement that Deepak has dropped off Natalee by himself at the Holiday Inn. I finally admit to the police that my earlier statements were lies. I say:
My third statement is not entirely the truth. I am now willing to tell the full truth. That Deepak, Satish and Natalee early morning have driven to my house is true. Deepak drives, Satish sits besides him, and Natalee and I are on the backseat. Around 1:40AM we stop in front of my house. I ask her if she wants to come with me to my apartment, because I want to have sex with her. I would then later call a cab for her that would bring her back to the hotel. Natalee does not want to come in, but she all of a sudden wants to see sharks at North coast. She speaks normally and her eyes are normal as well, but she was a little drunk and she sometimes dozed away. Then we pass her hotel, but she does not want to go there. I tell Deepak to drop us off at the Fisherman's huts. It is my intention to walk back from there to the Holiday Inn and have sex along the way. She leans on me after we got out of the car and whilst we kiss we walk into the direction of the Holiday Inn, but Natalee wants to walk into the other direction. When we arrive at the Fisherman's huts we kiss. She wants to stay and sleep on the beach, I want to go home, I have trial-exams the next day. I tell her I have to go home and that I am walking with her into the direction of the hotel. Natalee does not want to go back to her hotel, she wants me to to stay with her and watch the stars and she tells me again that she does not want to go home. I lift her up and walk a short distance, but she wants me to put her down. Around 3:00AM I call Deepak and ask him to pick me up. He asks where the girl is. I say that she is sleeping on the beach and does not want to listen to me. He would come immediately. I wake her up and tell her that I am going to bring her to her hotel. She refuses and continues to sleep. I think if it is not better to lift her up and take her with me. I am lying next to Natalee thinking for 10 minutes, while she sleeps. I do not say anything to her, because her eyes are closed. When I hear Deepak's car arrive I wake her up again, and still she doesn’t want to come to with me to her hotel. I get up and walk to the car. I tell Satish that Natalee is sleeping on the beach. Satish answers: “Don't #@*%! with that bitch, somebody will find her tomorrow.” Around 3:30AM Satish drops me off at my house. I have left my shoes on the beach. Satish tells me he will go get them the next day.
(...)
To your question about what happened to Natalee, I answer you that I don’t know. If Deepak and Satish don’t know what happened to Natalee, then I don’t know it either.
The police confronts me with Freddy’s statement from yesterday. I say that my mother had told me that Freddy had phoned her and made a statement. Freddy declares that I already had told him the lied Holiday Inn story in Monday May 30th and that on Tuesday May 31st I had told that the three of us together left her on the beach.
I stated:
I told Freddy the HI story on Wednesday June 1st at my house. Satish and Deepak were present. I told Freddy the real story on June 1 in the afternoon at my house. You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is the truth, I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.
That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport shoes behind, that is not correct. This did not happen this way. I have left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly understand what I told him.
(...)
Two additional notes:
1) Joran mentions Satish above but I guess he meant Deepak. Just a Freudian typo.
2) There are two open conflicts between Joran and the Kalpoes. The most famous one is about the question whether or not Satish picked him up, but a less 'famous' one is about whether or not they stopped at Joran's house before driving to the beach/lighthouse. A crazy thought: suppose they did first drive to Joran's house, could it be that the muffler of the Honda made so much noise that it woke up Val and made him crawl behind the PC around 2:30 on that school's night?
FJ
DottyFriday, August 7, 2009 03:40 PM
Just like the durn "elf uhr". It does make sense. It could also be that whomever had helped Joran had 2 dogs.
JanFriday, August 7, 2009 03:54 PM
Thanks so much Fierljepper. I am presently "out of pocket," and will be so for a little while but I appreciated all you thoughts and improvements and additions and will include them, in time. All very very interesting for sure. It is like one tiny little light about something has been shed on the mysterious police interrogations.
crimejunkieFriday, August 7, 2009 10:20 PM
I have no idea why these PV's have always been a curious subject to me. It is quite revealing reading them in the improved format. People should read Paulus's and you can clearly see how some one or something is on their minds when they question him. It just seems like a witch hunt. Wasn't that right after Beth went to his house? It all seems very curious.
RizzoSunday, August 9, 2009 10:53 AM
Does anyone have an answer (Polemic,Jan, FJ, Dotty) or anyone else have an answer for where these PV's actually came from? Why only certain ones were leaked? What about the rest of them? Are we to believe what they say? Basically I have always been puzzled thinking that there have to be so many other statements that were taken but we only see a few and reading them have seen that even certain sections of these are missing. Just appears that they (and who is they) only wanted parts of the puzzle given but many key pieces are missing. Maybe that is why so many argue and still seem confused.
Just an observation and a question.
DottyMonday, August 10, 2009 11:50 PM
Rizzo, who knows for sure anymore where the PV's came from. In the beginning
when Beth was waving some around, those were said to have come from Jossy, and from
ALE garbage. That's poster speculation imo. Then a set of others were released again in 2006 I believe and those were said to have been the PV's Joran gave Garrison
who was going to do Joran's book. IMO, the PV's went from Garrison to Natalee's family
who released them to blog forums.
Joran, Deepak and Satish must have copies of the remaining PV's.
You speak of key pieces which were not leaked, my first guess would be those
key pieces might be crucial if there was to be a trial and in that case then the three main suspects shouldn't have them either. Neither then should we posters have
them.
I have also read that some PV's were used as interrogation tools only and that
the info was incorrect on them. Says who? Posters again.
Mos made some pretty strong statements in one pressor regarding Joran and his
helpers, after which Mos begins backtracking and stuttering and backing down.
One has to question why.
PolemicTuesday, August 11, 2009 03:36 AM
to Dotty...
That is a very good explanation about where the PV's came from. The best I have seen. Well done. Jan, that info should be incorporated into the book as a sort of an intro to the PV's. Can anyone add to what "Dotty." posted?
DottyTuesday, August 11, 2009 04:36 AM
This is apparently one that Beth had in her possession:
From August 15/05 Rita Cosby
<snip>
And joining me now from Aruba, Eduardo Mansur with the “Diario” newspaper. Eduardo, how did you get this document, to begin with?
EDUARDO MANSUR, “DIARIO”: OK, outside of the newspaper, we have a mailbox that people bring us all kinds of information, and they dropped it in there.
COSBY: Do you believe it‘s credible? Do you believe it‘s legitimate?
MANSUR: Oh, yes. It‘s got signatures of four detectives, whom I know, so we know it‘s credible.
COSBY: Why did you think it was important to publish it?
MANSUR: Sorry? I couldn‘t hear you.
COSBY: Why did you think it was important to publish it, to release it right now?
MANSUR: Well, because of what Joran says in the declaration, that he thinks that Deepak raped and killed Natalee.
<snip>
JanTuesday, August 11, 2009 11:39 AM
These are great suggestions and ideas. I will be adding them to my book the next chance that I have. These types of thoughts and suggestions are very helpful.
Actually this is what I was hoping for when I first put the book on line. One of the nice features of an online book, you can constantly update and make changes.
Thanks very much.
JanWednesday, August 12, 2009 06:48 PM
I have been giving these statements much thought over the last few days while in Aruba, as certainly the case really comes home again, especially trying to tell the details to my family who has always had a "limited," interest.
The statements released were really just the ones which had already been made public on line (mainly to the press). There honestly are no smoking guns in them. They are interesting reading, in my opinion, especially done in the new way, as they do explain exactly what was on the minds of the "three," and how and when they formulated ideas to present. And, of course, we can see how they turned on each other.
I am told that there are many, many other statements which really have much more block-buster information in them. Of course, these sit in the files of law enforcement and I doubt seriously that either family has seen them, nor do I believe the suspects have either.
Total topics:
65 Topics shown per page: 20
Friday, August 7, 2009 07:16 AM
It does make sense. It could also be that whomever had helped Joran had 2 dogs.